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Builders Pit LEED-H Against NAHB Green in One-On-One Debate
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| Submitted by: | Rick Hunter (rhunter@sagestl.com) 2/27/2008 12:23:00 AM PT |
| Location: | St. Louis, MO |
| Occupation: | Managing Principal, Sage Homebuilders |
Important Clarification & Point - NAHB can be true 3rd party verified, as it is in St. Louis, where the local gas utility handles verification for the HBA.
LEED-H is, according to the LEED-H committee, targeted to the top 10% of builders; NAHB is a needed lower hanging fruit. We need both systems, NAHB gets a builder started, and when they are ready to up their game, they can do LEED. If all we had was LEED, many might not go green.
It all becomes moot when code is upgraded to include a green building overlay, using the ANSI standard based on NAHB, due to be approved this year. And code upgrades may happen sooner than you might think, given the likely pace of carbon capping that seems poised to sweep the country.
| Submitted by: | Stephen Colley (scolley@buildsagreen.org) 2/10/2008 7:48:49 PM PT |
| Location: | San Antonio, TX |
| Occupation: | Green Building Program Coordinator |
If the program is too complicated to follow, and there's no
overwhelming demand by the public to buy green built homes,
builders are not likely to go through the effort to have their homes
certified. If the certification is too expensive, starter and entry-level
homes will pass on it.
The magic combination to include all categories of homes (not just the
ultra-expensive homes) is to use a green building certification
program that is affordable, easy to follow, and can be reasonably
verified by a third party. That's a tall order, but not impossible.
Finally, different programs in different parts of the country are not only
sustainable, they're essential. The green building program for San
Antonio, Texas would not be appropriate for Erie, Pennsylvania. How
can LEED for Homes or NAHB be appropriate for both?
| Submitted by: | Michael Chandler 2/8/2008 2:16:00 PM PT |
| Location: | chapel Hill NC |
| Occupation: | design-build |
You should be able to drag your cursor over the text and select copy then paste it into an E-mail or word document. This way you can accumulate "clippings" from several relevant articles for him to review into a single document, apply uniform formatting and even shoot it to his blackberry rather than printing it.
| Submitted by: | D. Richter 2/7/2008 3:40:46 PM PT |
I print out these articles for my boss and I was wondering if there is anyway you can avoid the advertisements from showing up in the middle of the article? It's very annoying.
| Submitted by: | Bill Watt 2/7/2008 3:09:47 PM PT |
| Location: | Orange and San Diego Counties, Calif. |
| Occupation: | Very small production home builder..owner/pres. |
Hello all, I am a small private production homebuilder out on the coast in Southern California. I am new to "defined" green and the whole standards debate. All the talk about manufacturers makes me wonder what the green thing is all about. I hope the rating systems give me credit for a deciduous tree planted just to the edge of a large ground floor window on the south exposure, or is this only about manufactured products and equipment? In other words, what about "organic" design? Bill
| Submitted by: | Michael Chandler 2/6/2008 8:41:07 PM PT |
| Location: | Chapel Hill NC |
| Occupation: | Design-Build |
My point in the article that two programs is the "natural order of things" is, of course, an attempt to reduce the LEED-h vs. NAHBgreen tension that is evolving. The LEED people see this and a new career path for architects. NAHB is wanting to make it accessible to rank and file builders so we threaten the LEED consultants bread and butter and they attack. We builders feel threatened by having to pay for another "consultant" to inspect our work and we attack.
If we imagine green building as a church we can see LEED-h as high priests in an ivory tower and NAHBgreen advocates as shirtsleeve preachers in a riverside revival tent. We welcome the unwashed and morally reprobate sinners into our tent in hopes of getting them pointed on the path to salvation. To get into the LEED-h temple you better smell good and be in your Sunday best. We both have our place in the world and we don't really overlap all that much. but in terms of changing the market the tent is the place to be.
| Submitted by: | Mike Norris (ecoblockman@aol.com) 2/6/2008 6:19:53 PM PT |
| Location: | Daytona Beach, Fl. |
| Occupation: | Senior Sales Consultant |
As a builder of energy efficient green homes we fight to maintain a reasonable selling price. As we gain experience and weed through the multitude of "Green Products" we have found that our ICF custom green homes
actually can sell in the $100.00 sq.ft. and up range. This makes them very attractive.If our customers knew we had to pay a extra $5000.00 to certify LEED-H vs. $0 to NHAB standards we think it would influence there purchase. Also there is considerable cost difference in getting a home designed to LEED-H vs NHAB Standards. I am a member of several "Green Build' organizations and even the there all trying to reach a common goal it can be confusing.
Bottom Line: As a group we are all trying to accomplish
the same thing! For this "Green Thing" to last it needs to make dollars & sense to the consumer!
| Submitted by: | jim crowell (jim@enlighten.us) 1/31/2008 6:45:53 PM PT |
| Occupation: | innovation in construction |
Dave, I applaud your comments but partially disagree. While serving on the National Durability Council when it was first formed, I discovered what you say about manufacturers to be true. Each segment of the industry fought so hard to avoid there being a standard for comparing durability because of the public then being properly informed, that the Council collapsed. Conversely, we did discover that because we insist on building our homes tighter and tighter,the older the home, the longer its overall life. Mold, moisture and mildew are tearing the current ones apart.
| Submitted by: | Dave Burrows (dbur3849@aol.com) 1/31/2008 10:43:35 AM PT |
| Location: | Midwest |
| Occupation: | Local HBA Executive Officer |
Yes, by all means. Let's force American families to increase their mortgages by $5,000 to pay for a test because no builders can be trusted.
Who determined what had to be mandatory? Perhaps manufacturers wanting their products in those mandates? Talk about self serving...
The most inefficient homes are those built 20 or more years ago. Let's come up with a market driven, flexible, voluntary standard the average American family can afford and replace those older houses as quickly as possible.
LEED-H will drive 1,000's of American families away form the new home market and trap them in older less efficient homes. It will kill off 1,000's of residential construction jobs too.
| Submitted by: | jim crowell (jim@enlighten.us) 1/30/2008 4:01:33 PM PT |
| Occupation: | innovation in construction |
Just as with our building codes vs. those in most other developed countries, the rating criteria are prescriptive rather than performance based. For example, I have built major additions to homes (and the largest solar structure in America here in the wet, cool Pacific Northwest). The additions have an R-2 insulation rating yet have no heating or cooling equipment,yet several have bananas, oranges and tropical flowers growing profusely in them. As proven by ODOE, I can build a home that operates at 25% of the model energy code, yet would have a low rating in either of the above programs. We need performanced based to give the clients the true evaluation.
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