Erik Gabrielson, HousingZone.com Web editor, talks with Jay Barkley and Greg Whitney, co-founders of the California-based American Mold Institute, a company that performs inspections and surveys of indoor air quality. Barkley and Whitney hold mold-inspection certifications from the Environmental Assessment Association and the Indoor Environmental Standards Organization. Barkley is president of the American Mold Institute. Whitney is vice president of operations and has previous experience as a certified asbestos and lead-paint consultant.
Gabrielson: Tell me about the American Mold Institute. What services do you offer?
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Barkley: We do inspections and surveys for indoor air quality, consisting of and not limited to mold, asbestos, lead, radon and bacteria. We go into a residence or a commercial building, and we characterize the situation with a visual inspection, and if the need presents itself, we take samples of whatever we're going in to investigate, whether it be asbestos or mold. We take either air samples, surface samples or bulk samples, and we send those to an accredited laboratory that we use in Phoenix, Arizona, called Aerotech. Aerotech does a microscopic analysis of those samples, and they send us back the quantitative result.
At that point in time, we give our recommendations on what should be done, and we can take that as far as writing a full scope of work that [the property owner] could give to the remediation company. The remediation company would use that scope of work to abate the situation, whether it be mold or asbestos. We would come in after that, and we would do a clearance test to make sure the environment is safe.
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Barkley: Yes, we have. It's kind of snowballing. It seems to be increasing daily in terms of just awareness, and that awareness turns into investigation and inspection jobs for ourselves.
Whitney: The thing about it, though, it's becoming more and more of a genuine notification issue, something that you're kind of compelled to notify a potential buyer of a property [about]. People are beginning to accept the fact that this could come back to haunt them if they don't notify the potential buyer. There's a whole host of things [that require notification]. You've got to notify somebody if there's a neighbor who plays loud music or anything that's going to impact the economic value of the property or the livability of the property. Certainly with mold and mold issues, I think people's expectations are that this is a legitimate issue.
Barkley: Quite honestly, most people who call us are concerned about themselves, but mostly their children. They're concerned that they're living in an environment that could be hazardous to their children — children's immune systems are not as strong as adults' — and that's why there's such a concern about this now.
Gabrielson: In what percentage of your inspections do you actually find serious cases of mold?
Barkley: We have to be careful when you say [serious cases of mold]. We find mold in almost every inspection that we do. There are certain types of mold that have been linked to illnesses, which we particularly look for, and one of those is stachybotrys.
Whitney: I find stachybotrys pretty common when you've got wet drywall. It's pretty common when you have a persistent leak.
Gabrielson: What are the other types of dangerous mold besides stachybotrys?
Whitney: Aspergillus has some subspecies that lead to opportunistic infections. They call them opportunistic infections because you've got someone with a diminished immune system, whether they be young children who are sick or old people who have various ailments, or somebody that may have AIDS or HIV, and their immune system is suspect. Some people are allergic to penicillin and have very strong reactions to penicillin. Stachybotrys shows up often, and that's an issue to a lot of people. [Stachybotrys] is known for opportunistic infections as well.
Barkley: What I could be allergic to, or what could cause me some respiratory problems or reactions to a particular mold, may not cause reactions to you. It's all pretty specific to the individual.
Gabrielson: During your inspections, what do you find the most common cause of mold is? It's water intrusion of some sort, but is there any common theme you see more often than not?
Whitney: Yes, the factors that lead to mold becoming a problem are neglect of the property, moisture problems behind walls where people aren't even aware there's a moisture problem, and so they don't tend to it; for instance, dead air in a wall cavity. Also where people aren't paying attention to hygiene — they're not cleaning off the surfaces of the bathroom, and maybe there's dead air in the bathroom, there's no circulation of air.
Barkley: Basically, any type of water intrusion that sits for 24 to 48 hours with no response can grow and colonize [mold].
Gabrielson: What is involved with one of your home mold inspections? Somebody calls you out, they think they have a problem — where do you begin?
Whitney: When we arrive on site we have a good, long talk with the homeowner or the occupant. We have a questionnaire that they'll fill out so that we can put their thoughts into a framework that we can then work off of in a step-by-step method. We try to establish some parameters so we can go forth with the inspection. That all will arrive at where we're going to go from here after speaking with the homeowner or occupant. We'll then look for visible growth, we'll look for visible deterioration of building materials, we'll look for visual staining of building materials from water, we'll try to sense odor. But because people are so subjective in what they can smell and can't smell, whether or not the odor is offensive is a judgment call. So we look for these discolorations and deteriorations, and then we use a moisture meter sometimes.
IESO standards don't call for using a moisture meter, but a moisture meter which can give you a wood moisture equivalent, which is a percentage of moisture, that's a very useful tool in finding out where your wet building materials are. When we're done with that, we'll look at the humidity of a given area of interest. We'll reference that humidity and also the temperature against the outside humidity and temperature. At that point we'll take surface samples or bulk samples or swab samples of surfaces. The air sampling we do is typically called nonviable spore trap sampling. We'll do that in the air in the area of interest, we'll do that in the air outside the area of interest, typically outdoors. If we have a wet wall, we may do a wall-void sample, which consists of putting a small hole into the wall and gathering air from inside the wall void. So we'll look for the varieties of mold species that are found, and we'll look for the concentration of spores per cubic meter of air.
Gabrielson: And then you would send it off to the lab? How long does that take?
Whitney: The lab, of course, would give us the analytical results. We'll typically FedEx that off to a laboratory, and they receive it the next day. Some of the turnaround times you're seeing on nonviable samples are between three and five days. That's a typical turnaround time.
Gabrielson: And then you have one more meeting with the homeowner to discuss the results?
Whitney: Yes, we'll write a report and discuss the results with the homeowner.
Gabrielson: How much do you charge for a typical inspection?
Barkley: There's a range depending on the amount of work and labor that we put into this and the amount of samples that we collect. So we don't have a specific price. It can be anywhere from $650 to thousands depending on the labor. I guess the way to look at this is, for us to go in and do an initial investigation is $650, that's where we start. And then once we characterize the situation, then it could go up from there. Every house and every situation is unique, so I wouldn't be able to give you a specific price.
Whitney: The pricing is going to reflect labor and expenses, those being samples and supplies. Labor — how much time did it take to do the inspection, also to write the report and be on the phone with the analyst in case there's something that needs to be discussed. Also, there are times when a client is going to want a certified industrial hygienist or a microbiologist to give an opinion of the report, or where to go next, or what does all this mean for my health. That, of course, is something that we have to add to the cost of the job.
Barkley: One of the things we have pride in our company [about], and one of the unwritten laws we have in our company, is this: When we go out and take a sample, whether it be an air sample, a wall-void sample, a surface sample, there has to be really good reason to do that. We don't go out and just sample for the sake of sampling, which we found kind of permeates our industry. We want to make sure that the customer gets something for their money and there's a legitimate reason for us to do the sampling and there's a qualified reason for us to take the amount of samples that we take. So we really question them and make sure that we're doing something that they need, not so much that we just want to do it.
Gabrielson: What types of certifications do your inspectors have?
Barkley: We're certified with the IESO [as] certified mold inspectors, level one and two. We're also certified mold assessors and certified environmental inspectors, and that's from the EAA, which is the Environmental Assessment Association.
Gabrielson: How many inspectors do you have?
Barkley: We have five inspectors, and then we have some subcontractors that we use. We have two or three of those that fit our criteria and have met our standards.
Whitney: When remediation happens, a lot of times we're impacting asbestos-containing materials. So our inspectors are all certified asbestos consultants in California. We've got three lead-based paint inspectors. One thing that people forget about as they begin to remediate their mold issues is that the home and the laborers could be subjected to asbestos and lead exposure. So we have to also weigh those two factors. We can't go in and just pay attention to mold. It's a more complex environment than that. The procedures for handling asbestos and lead have been discussed so thoroughly that there are specific things you have to do with those materials. Consequently we have to tread really carefully whenever we write a scope of work and also whenever we sample for mold.
Gabrielson: Does your company have a specialized insurance policy?
Whitney: We sure do. We have general liability, which covers asbestos, lead, radon and mold. In addition to general liability, we have workers' compensation.
Barkley: It is in excess of $1 million, just in general pollution liability.
Gabrielson: Was that policy tough to get?
Barkley: Yes, it is. And I just spoke to another person who's a competitor of ours, and they're unable to get insurance. We talked to a lot of [insurance] companies, and we chose a company because they seemed to understand what our needs were, and they asked us questions and really made us jump through hoops in terms of qualifications to get [the policy]. I hear more every day that they're just declining insurance to people, and there are companies out there that are doing inspections with no insurance at all. I don't know what the percentages would be, but I would tell you that a lot of the companies out here are carrying no insurance at all.
Gabrielson: Anything else to add?
Barkley: We really tried to align ourselves with an organization that we felt we could use for credibility and for standards. After much evaluation we've aligned ourselves with the IESO, and we follow the standards that they've established rigorously.
Gabrielson: The IESO was incorporated last year. Before that, did you see a great need for an organization to come up with a certain set of standards that everybody should follow?
Whitney: You know [when I was talking] about asbestos and lead? It's well-documented and it's written in law everything you have to do with lead and asbestos — from how many samples you need to take to characterize the issue, the engineering controls that you need when you remove the materials and where it's going to be disposed of. All the firms involved from characterizing it to disposing of it are all licensed and have their requirements. It's pretty amazing.
But with mold there's nothing in law on how to deal with it, what's a dangerous threshold, what's a safe amount, personal exposure limits, nothing like that. It's really important to the people who consult and the people that remediate to have something that they can point at and say, "This is why I made a decision. These are the standards that we use to evaluate a complicated problem, and this is why we wrote up our scope of work, this is why I can now say you've met clearance criteria." There's nothing regarding what a safe health risk is when it comes to mold.
Gabrielson: Do you think the medical community will have to be involved in determining safe levels of mold?
Barkley: I think there are a lot of bills that are trying to go through Congress regarding this industry, and there are a lot of doctors and medical experts who are trying to evaluate right now what the ramifications are in terms of exposure to mold. There are a lot of conflicting opinions on it, but certainly they're very much involved, and it's very much of a concern. There are claims of illnesses being directly related to exposure to mold.
Gabrielson: It sounds like the next couple of years will be pretty crucial in what standards are adopted by the medical community, as well as associations like the IESO.
Barkley: I think there's going to be a lot of collaboration between all kinds of fields. At this time we feel American Mold Institute's association with the IESO will help us address the needs of the various affected parties more effectively.
The American Mold Institute is online at www.americanmoldins.com.
Other partners of the American Mold Institute are:
Tom Kogler, vice president of finance
Steve Beaulieu, vice president of administration
Kevin Riley, vice president of marketing
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